Lee Elder

Joined

• started 158 topics
• posted 646 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Lee Elder

• 
  38

  I might be a Deist

  by professor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thank you, valis, for posting to following info:.

  this seems closer to me than anything i have found yet.

  it also seems to fit the bill for several others who replied on that thread.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  I too consider myselft a Deist.

  Lee
• 
  1

  Leukemia without blood.

  by chasson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have found this links on the internet.. even some "noblood" 's doctors has said that it is very difficult without blood's transfusion:.

  http://www.usctransfusionfree.org/cs-transfusionfreeleukemiatreatment.html.

  the treatment of leukemia may be one of the only exceptions to the general rule at usc that all patients can be cared for bloodlessly.

  1. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  Thanks for the link. Leukemia is the big killer among JWs due to Watchtower
  policies on blood. While non JW children now have an 80-90% chance of
  recovery, the disease remains nearly 100% fatal for JW kids. A tragic and
  foolish waste of human life. Espeically when the WTS permits hemoglobin
  yet denies these children red cells. Red cells are nothing more than tiny donut
  sized bags of hemoglobin - 97% of the dry weight of a red cell is hemoglobin!

  Shame on the WTS

  Shame on anyone who supports such a policy

  Lee.
• 
  63

  Calgary Blood Case Effectively Over - We Won!

  by AlanF in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thought everyone would like to hear some great news about the calgary blood case.

  i was sent the following, which i've modified to protect the guilty:.

  at the witnesses' request, the trial has been put over till october.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  There may be a lot more going on here than meets the eye.
  It seems to me that for the WTS to effectively withdraw at this stage sends a clear
  message... they are backing down - big time. With Lawrence
  acting as his own attorney, this was a good opportunity for
  the WTS to chalk up another legal victory on this issue - they've
  won plenty of them - just read the 5/22/94 Awake.

  So the question becomes why? Is it because they feared
  the Witnesses lined up would prove to strong - the testimony
  too powerful? Or did someone in Brooklyn/Patterson who knows
  what is really going on with the WTS blood policy decide they
  didn't want this girl's blood on their hands since JWs use
  of hemoglobin is becoming widely known? (See 6/24 Newsweek).
  Perhaps they are getting concerned about their liability.

  This is very uncharacteristic of the WTS to back down from
  court challenge to 17 year old JW "mature minor" being transfused
  against her will. They look to be running scared.

  Edited by - Lee Elder on 25 June 2002 1:17:38
• 
  16

  Letter from society on donating blood

  by TheStar in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  as i promised in this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=29619&site=3&page=1.

  here are the scans of a letter from "the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses" regarding a brother's inquiry about donating blood.

  this letter is printed in greg stafford's new book "three dissertations on the teachings of jehovah's witnesses".. the scans are not that great but it was the best i could do.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  My favorite line is this letter is paragraph two, line one:

  "The scriptures clearly show that it would be wrong for a dedicated Christian to donate whole blood for use by someone else either in a transfusion of whole blood or in a transfusion of any of its four primary components."

  I wish someone, anyone in the Watchtower Society, would tell us where in fact the "scriptures clearly show" that a transfusion of red cells, white cells, platelets or plasma is forbidden?

  Moreover, where a transfusion of hemoglobin, albumin, clotting factors or serum is permitted.

  After all, in their words, "the scriptures clearly show..."

  OK - let's see it.
• 
  22

  "My Child is Dead"

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this morning we published a very moving story written by a jehovah's witness whose 15-year-old son died supporting the watchtower's society blood policy.

  to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a jw parent has gathered up the courage to face down this monstrous policy after losing their child.

  this is a very special person indeed and when we finally gather enough of these folks together and set them in front of the right attorney, the wts will be in for some serious litigation.. at present mary is in the midst of divorce from her jw husband and nailing down a custody agreement, so the identity of her and her son must remain anonymous.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  Path of Horns wrote: <The Society has not provided essential needed information, has supplied misleading information and has effectively prevented most Witnesses from reading balanced viewpoints on the matter to make an informed choice. This combined with the threat of automatic disassociation have created a generation of JWs that are willing to die believing a policy that it's creators are no longer sure of.> The WTS has been aggressively disseminating what amounts to bad medical advice for decades. Indoctrinating both parents and children, monitoring compliance, violating patient confidentiality and punishing any who chose to research, think and act on their own conscience - it is moral turpitude. Dungbeatle wrote: <Patients ALSO need to be informed of all their options, and that rarely is the case with Jehovah's Witnesses. I really doubt that Jehovah's Witnesses will refuse blood for their children if they were aware of the ENTIRETY of Watchtower's history on blood.> Education of both physicians and JWs is the key to ending this waste of precious human life. Many JWs, like Mary, have doubts about the policy but are in a very difficult position due to WT coercion and sanctions against doubters or those who ask the hard questions. Frequently, by the time they or their children show up in the emergency department - there is no time left to investigate and re-evaluate. Establishing informed consent in these situations is very difficult and we know that autonomy is simply not present in a significant percentage of cases. In elective surgery, physicians can do better, but this is the realm where the bloodless techniques work the best. It is the trauma cases and diseases of the blood and cancer where so many JWs are losing their lives. Frequently, no red cells or no platelets means chemotherapy must be stopped. We are making inroads into educating physicians - this morning a doctor emailed us requesting 25 copies of our brochure "Do Jehovah's Witnesses Really Abstain from Blood?" for his patients - so the word is getting out, but it is a slow and time consuming process, and the WTS has vastly superior resources to wage their PR campaign.

  Edited by - Lee Elder on 21 June 2002 12:49:23
• 
  22

  "My Child is Dead"

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this morning we published a very moving story written by a jehovah's witness whose 15-year-old son died supporting the watchtower's society blood policy.

  to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a jw parent has gathered up the courage to face down this monstrous policy after losing their child.

  this is a very special person indeed and when we finally gather enough of these folks together and set them in front of the right attorney, the wts will be in for some serious litigation.. at present mary is in the midst of divorce from her jw husband and nailing down a custody agreement, so the identity of her and her son must remain anonymous.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  Hawkaw:

  A doctor would have to have a functioning crystal ball to provide the kind of information that
  you are requesting. It is not possible to know whether someone would survive if they had
  been transfused. Additionally, the manner in which these situations is handled varies from one locality
  to another based on a whole range of issues: state law, hospital policy, medical ethics, and
  even the conscience of the attending physician. I would not presume to know where liability
  rests in this case - if at all. I am inclined to believe that it rests with the Watchtower Society
  but that is not for me to decide. As for the hospitals involved, I have little doubt that the medical
  personnel handled an extraordinary situation to the best of their ability and probably inline with
  established protocol.

  I believe that in a high percentage of cases where a 15 year old conscious JW refuses blood,
  their wishes are going to be respected barring a court order. If he/she is unconscious, as was
  the case at the trauma center, the situation is entirely different. The advance directive is questionable
  and in this case, there was no parent present to refuse blood.

  As for going out on a limb - what would be the motivation for any physician want to do that?
  The mother would probably have to subpoena the doctors involved just to get them to testify.
  We will, however, attempt to publish a death certificate once Mary's divorce is settled and
  she has permanent custody arrangements made.

  Lee

  Edited by - Lee Elder on 20 June 2002 13:42:13
• 
  22

  "My Child is Dead"

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this morning we published a very moving story written by a jehovah's witness whose 15-year-old son died supporting the watchtower's society blood policy.

  to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a jw parent has gathered up the courage to face down this monstrous policy after losing their child.

  this is a very special person indeed and when we finally gather enough of these folks together and set them in front of the right attorney, the wts will be in for some serious litigation.. at present mary is in the midst of divorce from her jw husband and nailing down a custody agreement, so the identity of her and her son must remain anonymous.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  This morning we published a very moving story written by a Jehovah's Witness whose 15-year-old son died supporting the Watchtower's Society blood policy. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a JW parent has gathered up the courage to face down this monstrous policy after losing their child. This is a very special person indeed and when we finally gather enough of these folks together and set them in front of the right attorney, the WTS will be in for some serious litigation.

  At present Mary is in the midst of divorce from her JW husband and nailing down a custody agreement, so the identity of her and her son must remain anonymous. Once that is over, we will publish a photo and additional details.

  Mary's sincere hope, and ours, is that her story will be widely circulated on the internet and that it will hopefully help to open the eyes of other JW parents so that they can avert this kind of tragedy in their lives. Additionally, we hope that other parents whose children have been injured or died because of this policy will find the courage to come forward and tell their stories.

  The full text of the story can be read at AJWRB: http://www.ajwrb.org/experiences/mary.shtml

  or below.

  My Child is Dead.

  My son was theocratic - bright and promising and a true servant of Jehovah. He dreamed of going to Bethel to serve Jehovah more fully. He prepared for meetings on his own, pioneered during summer breaks, handled the microphones at the Kingdom Hall, and timed the student talks for the Ministry School Overseer. He even gave talks at assemblies. We were so proud!

  He was 15 years old and in the 9th grade when he and another young Witness were in a terrible auto accident. The other boy was driving my son home from the Sunday meeting when he raced the car, lost control and flipped. I was a faithful Witness for 29 years, and my husband and I trained our son to refuse blood transfusions. He told the ambulance drivers, "No blood!" and he said it again at the first hospital before he became unconscious. When he was air lifted to the trauma center, he was immediately transfused because he was unconscious and a minor.

  By then, however, a lot of time had passed and there had been severe internal bleeding that had damaged his heart and other organs. When we arrived at the trauma center, the doctor told us that he had little chance of survival without blood transfusions, and that they had given him several units when he arrived. This angered my husband a great deal but I said nothing. Secretly, I had hoped the doctors would give him blood despite our wishes if a transfusion could save his life. The doctor said they restarted his heart twice and that gave us a glimmer of hope but twenty minutes later, with tears in his eyes, the doctor said they couldn't restart his heart a third time - he had died.

  My husband and my two other sons and I cried and cried and cried. I have never known such anguish and physical pain! I wanted to die. The pain was unbearable. I kept thinking, "Would he have lived if he got blood at the first hospital?" A spiral of profound change began in my life.

  When you see your child lying wrapped in a white sheet, their pale lifeless face - there is no comfort. I will be forever carrying that picture of my son in my mind - wearing the face of death. No words can touch that place where your heart is dying. The hope of the resurrection means nothing when you can't see or touch the living-breathing child that filled your life with joy. Never seeing them smile at you, laugh with you, or give you a hug ever again in the days to come. Never hearing them say, "I love you" again. I've suffered pain, but nothing compared to the pain of losing my beloved son. Your whole body becomes sickened with the most horrible physical pain one can feel. I've suffered pain, but nothing compared to the pain of losing a child.

  I pray that any Jehovah's Witness who has children and reads this will never have to face such a loss such as mine. A loss that can be prevented if they have a true understanding of what the Watchtower Society is asking them to sacrifice.
  After my son had died, I realized my nagging doubts about the Watchtower's blood policies needed to fully investigated. Hadn't I just lost a child for these purportedly God given laws I had lived by for 29 years?

  I soon learned that over the years the Witnesses have changed many teachings about blood and that the Governing Body was about to change more of its blood doctrines. Why are some parts of blood permitted when others not? Where did they find this in the Bible? In addition, if the Bible says nothing about transfusions, how can the Governing Body say with certainty that blood transfusions are wrong in Jehovah's eyes? How could I forgive those men for my son's death? The men of the Governing Body have the blood of many innocents on their hands. They who taught us falsely in God's name are accountable to him.

  My heart is completely broken - my child is dead. I beg of you who read my story, don't let this happen to you. Educate yourself now before you are faced with a similar tragedy. If any child can be saved by their parents thinking now rather than after they lose their child, perhaps my son's death will not have been for nothing.

  You may contact Mary: [email protected]
• 
  28

  Why WTS Wants A Young Girl To Die

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here we have a paradox - a mystery on which a life hangs.. the society dumped their new blood cards.

  they write ambiguous replies to "questions from.

  readers" about what blood products can or can't be taken.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  Like all corporations they act out of self preservation. It seems pretty clear that they want
  to back away slowly but don't expect all JWs to get that message anytime soon. They
  obfuscate their intentions to keep the issue from blowing up inside the organization precisely
  because the policy has caused so many premature deaths.

  The other thing at work here could simply be a case of the right hand not knowing what
  the left hand is doing. Many JWs, and perhaps the Canadia JW attorney(s) may be
  pretty much in the dark about the history of the blood policy, and the WTS future direction.
  Think about it, there are still some JWs that are convinced as ever that the generation of
  1914 won't pass away - hello.

  Lee
• 
  1

  We need your help - Part 2

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thank you to all who responded with their comments and suggestions.. we need the assistance of individuals who were raised as jehovah's witnesses.

  in gathering some data.

  to participate in this activity you need to have personal.

  1. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  Thank you to all who responded with their comments and suggestions.

  We need the assistance of individuals who were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses
  in gathering some data. To participate in this activity you need to have personal
  knowledge of each person you list and provide their last name, first name,
  if they are active JWs, or in a second broad category (Inactive/DF/DA/Suicide/Deceased)
  You may include a brief note if there is something exceptional about there situation.

  Please do not provide information or names unless you are reasonably sure that the information
  is accurate. These individuals should be ones that were raised by JW parents, not necessarily
  baptized, and are now adults.

  This information will be treated confidentially but we need to have your name and contact
  information on file in the event we have questions. Please do not publish this information
  on the web but email it to: [email protected]

  Use the following format:

  Last Name First Name Active Inactive/DF/DA/Suicide/Deceased Notes

  Please make every effort to be thorough and accurate. We will publish the results of the
  survey which should be both interesting and useful. Once you get your mind working on this
  it is amazing how many names start coming back to you. My wife and I were able to come
  up with 180 names in a little over an hour. The goal is to get the sample size around 1000.

  Thank you,

  Lee
• 
  13

  We need help

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a request to get some assistance in preparing an estimate of how many jehovah's witness children leave the religion during or after adolescence.

  i know the figure is substantial based on my own observations, but we need some way to document it.

  please put on your thinking cap and publish your ideas here.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Lee Elder

  This is a request to get some assistance in preparing an estimate of how many Jehovah's Witness children leave the religion during or after adolescence. I know the figure is substantial based on my own observations, but we need some way to document it. Please put on your thinking cap and publish your ideas here. This is very important.

  Thanks,

  Lee